Spooky Mind Control Technology

Bruce Perens

Tue May 13 11:26:19 -0700 2008

There are more practical ways to get at people. The U.S. Embassy in Russia was famous for being bombarded with microwaves for years on end, but the suspicion at the time was that they were being used for surveilance, perhaps to remote-power some device. But yes, some sort of Faraday cage.

Spooky Mind Control Technology

Thomas Lord

Tue May 13 11:48:01 -0700 2008

Faraday cage, eh?

So the choices are mental slavery or putting one's self in jail? Oh, third option: join the diplomatic corp :-) Or perhaps we can all start sporting faraday clothing and stylish faraday burkas.

FWIW, I remember reports of the embassy shenanigans going way back. Do you remember "Omni" magazine in the 1970s?

---

As for the old "more practical ways to get at people" canard... that has to be laid to rest.

Open sources thoroughly document the intel community's efforts to find exactly this kind of tool for manipulating individuals without much risk of detection. We're not talking 10 crazy guys in a forgotten sub-basement of Langley, we're talking reams and reams of work -- just in what's wound up open source -- that you don't have time to read all of in the remainder of your natural life presuming a long life span. Decades and decades. Including involuntary experimentation on unwitting US citizens -- no shortage of that, either.

Why? Well, let's consider you, Bruce. You're a world traveler. You have contacts in corporate executive offices around the world. You have contacts in hot fields like young technologists. Geeze, you've even worked with the U.N. Now, do you suppose there might someday be a national security interest in influencing your behavior, undetected, in some of these contexts?

---

When the Wall came down and GDR fell, Stasi hq quickly became a museum. I'd like to recommend a film to you, to give some appreciation of what humans are capable of (good and bad). It is fiction, but it is very well researched fiction. You can rent the DVD at the public library in our city. I suggest watching the film twice: first without and then with director's commentary. Also watch the director's interview "bonus feature." Check out The Lives of Others.

-t

Spooky Mind Control Technology

Bruce Perens

Tue May 13 13:26:21 -0700 2008

Why? Well, let's consider you, Bruce. You're a world traveler. You have contacts in corporate executive offices around the world. You have contacts in hot fields like young technologists. Geeze, you've even worked with the U.N. Now, do you suppose there might someday be a national security interest in influencing your behavior, undetected, in some of these contexts?

CIA has made a big investment in funding GNURadio development. Fully Open Source and all. I know some professional spooks, I'll see some of them at Hamvention this weekend, but as far as I can tell they are interested in listening, not sending.

But Tom, if someone wants to get to me, there are much easier ways to do it.

Bruce

caution line

Thomas Lord

Tue May 13 13:47:27 -0700 2008

If you know openly CIA (or other intel) types, that's one thing. If you think you know, or know you know, deep cover types -- be careful. It is, of course, illegal to knowingly disclose that but there is also a trap for the unwary: the game of nim, closely related to the old riddle about "the island with no mirrors and a blue-eye taboo". If you say, "I know some deep cover types, though I would never say who," then antagonists can start saying "Ok, who does he know? Let's rule them out one by one until we find out who he meant."

(The riddle: On an isolated island there are no mirrors and a taboo about blue eyes. None of the natives may (per taboo) tell any other native that they have blue eyes. Should any native come to know that he himself has blew eyes, he must (and will) throw himself into the fiery volcano before the next sunset. Of the population of 100 natives, 10 have blue eyes. An explorer arrives and, in a stunning display of cultural insensitivity, casually remarks one day that "Hey, some of you natives have blue eyes!" The natives are excellent logicians, committed to discovering the truth behind any statement they hear. What happens, in the ensuing days?)

---

You keep saying "get to you." This is alarming, in this context. You suggest that you will roll over to any request, and pull it off.

Are you saying that you will cooperate with anything that comes along, given sufficient intimidation or bribery?

-t

Dayton

wowbagger

Tue May 13 14:19:53 -0700 2008

If you don't mind, may I ask how you are getting to Dayton - Flying in or driving?

If driving, I'd suggest on your way back (assuming you will be taking I70 back) swinging down onto the Turnpike at KCK, and going through The Kansas Cosmosphere and Space Center in Hutchinson.

And if you do, and you DON'T call on W0SOE/82 (146.82- 103.5PL) I will be DEEPLY offended.

Spooky Mind Control Technology

ah.clem

Tue May 13 12:01:25 -0700 2008

Wouldn't it be possible to create a microwave listening device, something that beams a microwave at a window, then picks up the microwave transmission as it reflects back, along with the interference waves created by the vibrations of air in the office, remove the microwave carrier and then you'd have the conversation going on in the room?

Wow, what a poorly crafted sentence that was, but I think you can get the idea.  Is this feasible?

ah.clem

Laserdropping

wowbagger

Tue May 13 12:24:59 -0700 2008

Already been done, and perfected, but using IR lasers rather than microwave (to microwaves your window is not much different than the air).

But yes, the intel and law enforcement community already have this gear and use it frequently.

there's that, too

Thomas Lord

Tue May 13 13:15:00 -0700 2008

But yes, the intel and law enforcement community already have this gear and use it frequently.

That's another thing that makes "all this stuff" worthy of attention: the trickle-down effect. First something like IR lasers for eavesdropping arrives at intel and initially is only used in extreme circumstances. Then it becomes a widespread tool, perhaps even trickling down to special forces. Then the LA police department gets it. Then your obnoxious neighbor has it.

-t

Spooky Mind Control Technology

Charles E Hill

Tue May 13 13:09:28 -0700 2008

The same embassy they scrapped because of the uncounted number of bugs mixed into the concrete during construction?  I remember reading about that.

Spooky Mind Control Technology

President4242

Tue May 13 11:47:44 -0700 2008

Seems simple enough to me- if the voices in your head are ALSO whistling, ignore 'em.

Spooky Mind Control Technology

Thomas Lord

Tue May 13 11:49:28 -0700 2008

Part of the claim here is that you don't necessarily recognize the "voices in your head" as voices in your head. You can't ignore it if you don't perceive it in the first place.

-t

Spooky Mind Control Technology

Charles E Hill

Tue May 13 13:14:12 -0700 2008

Well, maybe.  I've always taken "voices in your head" to just be a catch-all phrase.  I don't have voices in my head, and never had.  Not even my own.  Unless I'm writing -- like a blog post -- I don't think in words.  I think in concepts, images and relationships.  I don't hear any sound at all, even when remembering a conversation or musical performance.  Most of it moves much to fast to be simple words, and it is way to nebulous.

Hearing a "voice in my head" will stand out like a sore thumb for me.  Maybe that is just me, but I thought it was the norm and phrases like "voices in your head" were shorthand for what was really going on.

Well, of course.

Thomas Lord

Tue May 13 13:36:26 -0700 2008

That's true, certainly.

Please sit in silence for a moment.

I would like you to think of some film footage you have probably seen. It is of a speech, given on the Washington Mall, from the Lincoln Memorial. You've seen the black and white footage. There is Rev. King, saying "I have a dream..."

Do you recall well the timbre of his voice? The cadence of the delivery? Can't you, as you sit in silence, "hear" it?

So, what just happened there? Seek professional help, man, you've got voices in your head!

-t

Well, of course.

Charles E Hill

Tue May 13 13:54:59 -0700 2008

Well, the problem is the voice doesn't exist by itself.  When I recall recordings of that speech, I recall the images and other bits of info as well.  Even when I recall things I have only heard the audio on, I associate other visuals and impressions at the same time.

For example, Kenny G's Auld Lang Syne.  It has audio clips from over the decades.  Everything from the Hindenburg to MLK to Ali vs Frazier.  Some I associate with other video I've seen on newsreels, some just come with a vision of the CD cover or something else I remotely associate with it.

I can't recall ever having the ability to isolate out audio.  It has always come as a "package".

Maybe the projected audio will automatically associate and package itself in my brain.  I'd have to experience it to know for sure.

 

the main point

Thomas Lord

Tue May 13 14:25:44 -0700 2008

The main point being that introspective "self-models" are not very reliable. The claim that a "voice in your head" would "stick out like sore thumb" is a hope, not an observation.

-t

Spooky Mind Control Technology

mengel

Tue May 13 11:56:03 -0700 2008

This is why you should almost never listen to "voices in your head" -- I mean, who knows where they might be coming from!?!

And of course, as always, we are reminded that tin foil hats don't work well, but several layers of 3M anti-static plastic apparently does :-)