Driven by Ethanol: Record Corn Crop Planned for 2007

Charles E Hill

Sat Mar 31 20:55:38 -0700 2007

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This is a farm subsidy in disguise.  6.5 billion gallons of ethanol is < 5% of U.S. gasoline usage.  Even if every last scrap of corn was used for ethanol, we're talking replacing < 20% of U.S. gasoline usage.  Of course, that means sacrificing food for both humans and farm animals, so it'll never get that high.

If the U.S. is so interested in ethanol, why the massive import tariff on Brazilian sugarcane-produced ethanol?  If this is just a stopgap measure until we can perfect cellulose-produced ethanol, why not send some business to S. America?  It isn't like we'd be undercutting American farmers, they're already at production capacity.

A simple fact.  We do NOT have the acreage in this country to be self-reliant in food, animal feed and biofuels.  God help us if we have some sort of "corn blight" that destroys the crop.  A nasty series of thunderstorms, tornadoes or hail would also be a major issue.

Driven by Ethanol: Record Corn Crop Planned for 2007

TykeClone

Sun Apr 01 06:01:09 -0700 2007

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This is not a fuel vs animal feed issue. The distillers grains left over from ethanol production make great feed - with ethanol we're just getting one additional use from the corn crop before feeding it out.

Driven by Ethanol: Record Corn Crop Planned for 2007

Charles E Hill

Sun Apr 01 08:22:31 -0700 2007

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So I've read.  Then why isn't this happening?  Why is the price of corn-based animal feed rising?

I know ADM is pushing to use the cellulose waste from corn, such as stalks, in cellulose-based ethanol production.  But, that isn't the distillers dried grain, that is what is normally left to decompose in the fields to help condition the topsoil for next season.

Searching...

Okay, it looks like it is ramping up and the big issue is just meeting demand.  There is a great resource over at the Univ. of Minnesota with everything you ever wanted to know about distillers grain by-products.

Driven by Ethanol: Record Corn Crop Planned for 2007

Paul Jackson

Sun Apr 01 06:41:44 -0700 2007

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Great Idea, we'll encourage the Brazilians to illegally slash and burn the rain forest to make ethanol for north america; that will really reduce CO2 emissions. Maybe they can drive a few native tribes into extinction at the same time.

Driven by Ethanol: Record Corn Crop Planned for 2007

Charles E Hill

Sun Apr 01 08:04:33 -0700 2007

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They're doing that now.  Pres. Bush was just down in Brazil and one major topic was ethanol.  Environmental protesters were lamenting just what you're describing, though the U.S. isn't the bad guy.  Brazil has converted almost all of their automobiles to run on ethanol and started a major push for domestic sugar-based ethanol decades ago.

Should we encourage this?  I don't know.  The Amazon is important, but so it Brazil developing a decent economy.  Burning less oil would be good, but ethanol is not the answer.  It may be one small part of the answer, but we need serious money spent on cellulose-ethanol research.

We don't have a comprehensive energy plan, so it is probably a bad idea.  Using ethanol from non-cellulose sources is a stop-gap, transition measure and there needs to be a plan.  We don't have one.  No one seems to.

Driven by Ethanol: Record Corn Crop Planned for 2007

Josh

Sun Apr 01 16:23:07 -0700 2007

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No one has shown that cellulose based ethanol is anything but a slightly longer stop gap.

Driven by Ethanol: Record Corn Crop Planned for 2007

Josh

Sun Apr 01 16:23:43 -0700 2007

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The same is true of biodiesel.

Driven by Ethanol: Record Corn Crop Planned for 2007

Charles E Hill

Sun Apr 01 16:56:48 -0700 2007

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Not quite.

Biodiesel can be, and has been demonstrated, manufactured thru the use of oil producing algae.  It can be produced in desert areas, not fit for other crops.  Diesel engines are more fuel efficient, have less moving parts and last longer then gasoline engines.

While there is still R&D to be done, biodiesel at least has the possibility to replace the majority of fuel in the U.S., while ethanol does not.

Driven by Ethanol: Record Corn Crop Planned for 2007

Josh

Sun Apr 01 19:32:36 -0700 2007

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This speculative source material justifies my earlier statement.

There are other cycles that are more fuel efficient than diesel. If you are hinting at the energy future requiring a conservation component then I agree. Ultimately, clever rearrangement of our energy priorities is the only way to combat our problems until sufficient and responsible technology is developed. Generally speaking, I feel the current variety of commercial biofuel enterprises are premature. Government support for early yet inferior technologies will delay progress. We have many lessons from within the energy industry of ill conceived and artificially backed solutions. Fundamental education would do more to help us than some crazy algae farming scheme; even if such an infrastructure manages to temporarily pace steady with demand... The technical solutions don't even attempt to solve the problem. They simply delay the inevitable. Biodiesel is a poor investment from this perspective. J

Driven by Ethanol: Record Corn Crop Planned for 2007

Paul Jackson

Mon Apr 02 18:29:40 -0700 2007

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I agree they are doing that right now, the Amazon river is down 50 and 100 feet in places. That's because it isn't raining there like it should and that's likely because of agricultural deforestation mostly for their domestic consumption. Imagine adding a profitable NA market to the demand for land, what kind of a bad guy will that make the United States?

Driven by Ethanol: Record Corn Crop Planned for 2007

computersareevil

Mon Apr 02 14:49:55 -0700 2007

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Why is nobody addressing the root cause of our energy problems?   STOP BREEDING!

Driven by Ethanol: Record Corn Crop Planned for 2007

rubycodez

Fri Apr 06 10:07:38 -0700 2007

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Prosperity is having that effect, negative population growth in prosperous countries and among the prosperous ethnic groups here in the U.S. is already taking place such that world population estimates for the next century have been greatly reduced.

So let's think about another root cause, poverty and income inequality.  Maybe add to that curable ignorance about some sexual matters in some cases.

Driven by Ethanol: Record Corn Crop Planned for 2007

computersareevil

Fri Apr 06 10:44:11 -0700 2007

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It's true the rate of increase has declined, but it is still increasing the total population. Last I read the population should top out around 10 billion people. All of those people have basic needs that have to be met.

As for reducing poverty and income inequality, that will only compound consumption. If everybody in Africa and China can afford even the crappiest little car, the effect on our resources will be hugely more damaging than SUV's have been.

The only way to live with sustainable consumption with a uniform standard of living of even 25% of the average American is to reduce the global population. Probably by more than half. Even then I think private automobiles would be out of the question if anybody was serious about sustainability. (Which is a damn shame because I like my cars!)

Still, the bright side is the next species that dominates the planet will thrive on all the waste we create. Just like the oxygen we breath is likely the result of the complete overpopulation by algae in the early life of the planet.  They will probably spew gasoline from their factories and consider it a useless and harmful byproduct. ;-)

Driven by Ethanol: Record Corn Crop Planned for 2007

rubycodez

Fri Apr 06 10:59:39 -0700 2007

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There's plenty of resources for energy on earth, so you needn't worry about transportation or even power for that matter.  Just no shortage at all, either of fossil fuel or smarter energy (fissionable materials, solar).  Shortage of brains to use the stuff, but that's another matter, curable.

So, forgetting any notion of comparing or emulating the U.S.A. current lifestyle, we have food, water, shelter, and clothing.   Clothing isn't a problem, you don't need new sets of duds every year, fiber for clothing just a side benefit of solving food problem.

Water, well the distillation of drinking water from sea water is a perfect application of solar energy, or any other kind of energy in huge supply.  Engineering problem, and will to invest in fellow man's problems.

Food, harder problem, greenhouses,  manage rather than plunder the oceans, breed strains of crops that grow in harsher climates (solve that water problem and this food one not so quite so bad)

shelter - easy, engineering and knowledge spreading problem.  No end to materials that can be uesd to build a house.

The main problems facing future of mankind are political, moral, and knowledge based.  Not really lack of resources to solve problems.